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Post by Fletch on Jul 1, 2009 20:06:36 GMT -8
Bri, the one word that stood out to me was Religion! Religion is a man made thing not a God made thing. As long as man chooses to be religious they will add or subtract from God's word as they see fit. They will add provisions to govern God's children to conform to what the Church leaders what.
Personally, I look to the Book of Acts to see what Jesus wanted the Church to look like. Very few Churches look like that today. We left the Church of God , Anderson Indiana a couple of years ago because they suddenly decided that it was no longer convenient to help members of the congregation how were in need of clothing and food on Sunday. When I ask what part of Matthew 25:31-46 they did not understand you would have thought I had just spoken against the Spirit. I went so far as to call the Pastor and ask if I had misunderstood what Christ meant when he spoke of the final judgment. He told me that I understood it perfectly and that the scripture I quoted was his personal mission statement. He no longer wanted to talk when I ask how he could stand by and allow this decision to stand.
Instead of taking the hard line stand on scripture he choose to keep his job and allow the church to pull away from God's word. Two years ago the congregation was 175 attending on any given Sunday, now it's 35, rest assured God will rule over his Church. If they run lukewarm like the Church in Laodicea, God will spit them out.
We all should each and every day realize that we, as children of God, may be the only reflection of Christ the world sees. It is an awesome thing that has been entrusted to us, and God is perfectly aware that we are going to fall short of being the one who died on our behalf. But, that's the reason he had to die otherwise we'd be condemned to an eternity of gnashing of teeth and fire.
There is not a one of use who can even remotely consider approaching the Throne of God on our own. Fortunately, Christ gives us access to the Throne and through Him we can rest assured that we are forgiven even when we screw up big time.
St Francis of Assisi has been credited with the statement, "Go forth and preach the Gospel, and if necessary use words!" The statement can just as easily be stated, "Allow Christ to be reflected in your daily walk, and when ask, explain the change accepting God's gift of Salvation has made in your life."
Bri, I understand your frustration, but, I will tell you Brother, let your light shine and impact those around you for the Kingdom of God. God, is more then capable of handling the rest.
In Christ.
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Post by Kit Karson on Jul 1, 2009 23:54:41 GMT -8
Amen
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Post by demonhunterfan on Jul 2, 2009 2:52:42 GMT -8
Hey Bri, makes sense to me because I did the same thing for quite some time in my 'childhood' after accepting Jesus as my Savior-- not my Lord. As a young'un I just wanted all the 'good stuff' I could get from HIM, and yes, I was way guilty of trying to twist HIS Word, and HIM, to suit me. No matter that I was still stupidly trying to do things my way--and ( :osuprise suprise!) always getting the same bad results. Kind of sad to think that some of those who aren't 'called' will not seek HIM, even tho they may see and experience HIM thru HIS people or otherwise. Makes you feel really blessed when you realize that "I must be one of the 'called' because I'd rather (as Billy Joel sang it) 'laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints'--and yet, having accepted HIS Salvation, HIS Lordship can't be denied and I, at first, resign myself to HIS Will, but thru time and maturing, came to desire HIS Will". I believe that as we are 'made' more and more into HIS Likeness, we cannot help but 'act' like HIM as well, showing mercy, grace, compassion, etc, as HE showed us. When I felt I had reached a certain level of faith, I expected everyone else 'in the building' on Sunday morning, Wednesday evening, and whenever, to be at that same level. I came to realize that we are not all at the same level, that we all do not grow at the same pace. Took me years to understand, and accept that, but that was a huge part of my relationship with Christ, for which I am so thankful for. HE truly never left me nor forsook me, and has been like a personal 24/7 tutor. HE taught me to pray for all those I judged so harshly, and some of them have grown, in part because of my prayers, I believe. HE taught me how to use the new heart HE created within me, to do like St Francis of Assisi said, "Preaching the Gospel at all times, using words if necessary", and if still seeing no result after that-- to simply pray for those HE puts in my path--those HE has me 'notice'. We as HIS followers should neve think there is nothing we can do, for or about, someone or a situation-- the simplest, and yet the most effective thing we can do is pray. Later and God bless  |
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Post by Fletch on Jul 2, 2009 7:36:23 GMT -8
Bri, while I won't claim to know where you're at in this process I can understand it. The one thing I will tell you Brother is don't allow the actions of man to sour you on God's Church.
A fellow Pastor directed me to a book by George Barna called Revolution, telling me it would help me to understand the feelings I was having about the goings on in the church. I found through Barna's work that there is a growing number of Christians like us who have been deceived by the church for so long that we no longer trust organized religion.
A friend and I were talking a few weeks back about the state of today's church. Basically, reminiscing about the way things use to be when we were kids. When you went to Church and it was an all day outing. You knew that you were going to be spending the entire day with your Church family. You were going to break bread, you were going to pray and play and be God's Children. Then we compared it to today's church where the service starts at 10:30 and some one in the congregation's watch goes off at noon signaling the Pastor that you're now on our time. You know good and well that the only time that alarm ever goes off is Sunday at 12.
This same friend confided that those were the only times he ever felt close to God. That there was something about a small congregation and being a church family that he missed and longed for, the things he was missing in the church of 5000+ he is currently attending. I offered that we have a group of people that we meet with that felt the same way and that we are on a path to get back to those things and that he was more then welcome to join us. He thanked me for my offer stating, "if I don't attend that church I don't get reduced tuition for my daughters education at the church school." It's difficult to feel sorry for someone that tells you this is the desire of my heart, to get closer to God, to feel that connection once again that my heart cry's out for, but if I pursue it it will impact my wallet.
These are the compromises that "Christians" make each and every day and sit back and say I just don't feel that connection to God that I did when I first received His gift of Salvation. Why isn't God there? Why has He changed?
Bri, you stated it very clearly in your first post on this topic, God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God has not changed it is us who want God to fit in the box of our convenience, instead of our conforming to His ways.
Another book worth investing in is, The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience by Ronald Sider. It is subtitled, Why Are Christians Living Just Like the Rest of the World? It shows the modern day church in the same light as the everyday world, it will make you want to grow closer to God and find a group of fellow believers to take on this journey to reclaim the inheritances that God gave to us.
Keep the faith Brother, God will reward you for your wanting to grow closer to him. I pray that this group is part of that process.
In Christ.
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Post by demonhunterfan on Jul 2, 2009 16:02:34 GMT -8
From Luke 9:1-6 (New International Version)-- 'When Jesus had called the Twelve together, He gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, and He sent them out to preach the kindom of God and to heal the sick. He told them: "Take nothing for the journey--no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic. Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town. If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them." So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and heling people everywhere.' You know guys, I believe we can liken the 'churches' of today to schools and/or hospitals. I imagine you've heard the saying that "church is a hospital for sinners". Part of the problem you've already alluded to is the people being there to 'feel good', and as long as the leaders are preaching good 'pain medicine' they aint about to leave their comfy 'hospital beds'-- unless for a time to get all 'cleaned up', put on their best face and clothing, so they look good in the 'hospital'. After all, look good, feel good-- right? While it may very well be true that church can be a hospital for sinners, the truth about a hospital is that you are there only temporary and you either leave healed or dead. You don't stagnate in a hospital. Also, I'm assuming most of us have gone thru at least 12 years of schooling, and, learned some things. We then sought after some kind of work to do, armed with the education we got while in school. There have been times in my adult life when I wish I was back in school-- when it was fun, but I have to push those feelings aside and face the tough situations, and deal with them. I believe that many of us who don't like-- nay, who can't tolerate what is going on in many of the churches (perhaps more accurately, what isn't going on in them) are like the 12 disciples that Jesus sent 'out'. If we truly feel led by The Spirit, seeing things others are not seeing, hearing things others are not hearing, and seeing and hearing that they are not The Truth, I believe it is time for us to 'shake the dust off our feet' and leave-- if we have made an effort to 'preach the kindom of God and to heal the sick'. In the Quest Study Bible that I copied the scripture from, the side note said that Jesus told the 12 (us) to take nothing so that they (we) would be totally dependent upon GOD, truting HIM to provide completely. I grew-- I learned-- and I healed in my time in the 'churches' thru whose doors I walked. Now I am out of school, out of the hospital, and am trusting GOD to provide me, day by day, with opportunities to fellowship with HIM, opportunities to worship HIM, to serve HIM, to obey HIM, to give to HIM, etc, etc, etc. I got sick and tired of blue haired ladies who had gone to 'church' for 60+ years asking in a Bible study, "How do I serve God?" I asked her, "Do you go shopping? get your hair done? drive in trafffic?" I related how I prayed for the person tailgating me, for the telemarketer that I talked with-- to which they all chuckled (guess I made 'em feel good) and called me 'The hero of tailgaters and telemarketers'. Better that I leave and 'Preach the gospel, using words if necessary', because if'n I stayed I probably woulda got me a 50cal on a tripod and waste the bunch. Point is guys, the devil delights in our infighting, but when we decide to get up off our butt, leave the silly talk behind, and actually go out and love our neighbor-- that's The Church-- that's serving our Lord, and Worship. Yeah, it can be tough, but HE is with us. Yeah, it can hurt, and we may feel some pain, but I wonder how Jesus felt when HE was carrying HIS Cross? I better stop now  Later and God bless |
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Post by Fletch on Jul 2, 2009 16:39:56 GMT -8
Keep on Preaching Brother John, the pulpit is all yours!
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Post by Kit Karson on Jul 3, 2009 0:19:15 GMT -8
Don't Stop... not even for Now!
We are needed Now more than ever!!
AMEN
btw "Church" a place where hypocrites are most welcome...
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Post by demonhunterfan on Jul 3, 2009 4:50:44 GMT -8
Don't Stop... not even for Now! We are needed Now more than ever!! AMEN btw "Church" a place where hypocrites are most welcome... Amen to that, Brother Wes. Just for all yinz's information, I am still 'connected' a bit to the church I attended here in town for 2 years, running sound for them while I was attending, learning, growing, and healing. I have breakfast with Carmen, who has taught Sunday School there, been involved with a number of outreach programs, preached on occaision, and is currently leading the Youth program. Carmen and a few other fellows from the church, and I, have breakfast every Tuesday morning and discuss God's Word, etc. Carmen and I are tight-- we're a lot alike, intense and passionate. We've had some rough moments, but both being grounded in Christ, we saw them thru and know each other's heart is for HIM. He has family obligations, as well as work-- parts guy for a Chrysler dealership, and naturally a gearhead. As The Lord leads, I pray for many in the congregation, love them all-- just can't stand some of the things they do and say at times, but love 'em as I am Loved, and again, as The Lord leads, occaisionally I do things for them. As I've been an overzealous volunteer in the church, and elsewhere, God has been working on me, getting me to think more before I act, and then to concentrate my giving on a particular person and/or situation-- 'a loose cannon for Christ' if you will. Being retired and seemingly not able to stick to any routine, I'm always available and I simply do my best to honor HIM who sends me. I learned years ago that we do not know how much time we have with any person-- HE alone knows-- so I do my best to make the most of the moments. Similar to Jesus saying 'we are either with HIM, or against HIm, I've come to realize that we either make the world a better place-- or we make it worse--- our choice. Later and God bless |
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Post by Kit Karson on Jul 3, 2009 11:50:11 GMT -8
Amen, Brother... He's got you right where he wants you!!
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Post by davewahl on Aug 18, 2009 3:50:52 GMT -8
Brothers:
He is the potter, and we are the clay. Some people seem to think that we can keep Jesus in a box and take him out and dust him off on Sunday morning just like a piece of knick-nack on the coffee table.Me, I try to live my life the way HE wants, although sometimes I still try to take back control. Of course he lets me, I fall flat on my mush, and after beating myself for it, ask him to take control again. But them again, isn't that human nature to try to run our own lives? Thanks for the space to talk.
Dave
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Post by nathanp47 on Aug 18, 2009 9:08:13 GMT -8
Here's some food for thought for y'all, the Lord showed me this several times in the poast few weeks, check that, months. When we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us. Now get this, and it boggles my mind to understand this, God was THINKING OF YOU even before He made the world. We are the focus of His love and the most valuable of all His creation. God did not need to create you or me, but He chose to create us for His own enjoyment. We exist for His benefit, His glory, His purpose and HIs delight.
Is that a joyous choir I hear? No, it is the Lord Himself exulting over you in happy song. Zeph 3:17.
And here's another statement of fact, God designed EACH OF US so there would be no duplication in the world. No one has the exact same mix of factors that make you unique. That means no one else on earth will ever be able to play the role God planned for you.
So you see we were chosen before all-time, think about it, we were chosen by God who created the whole world to be His. Do you realize we are allowed to call God Daddy? Do you know how awesome that is? Do you know what Father means? It means Abba Father, Daddy God or as one man I know calls him, Papa. We can go and crawl up into His lap and tell Him all our problems AND HE listens patiently. How can we do anything but Love Him, He is so awesome, I love the song We Serve an Awesome God.
Nathan
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